Hand position in JKD

[jkduk]

I understand that in the Bai Jong position the front arm is held in front of the body with the elbow about a fists width from the hip. The rear hand is held somewhere around the chest area below the chin in order to protect the centre line.

However, I have often noticed that when people start throwing punches their hands revert to more of a boxing position, with the non punching hand up covering the side of the head. Is this correct or should the hands always start from the Bai Jong position even when throwing combination punches such as a jab, cross, hook? If the hands should be held up around the head when punching then why isn't this also the hand position for the Bai Jong?

Thanks for any advice.

[zippy]

I know in the early years Bruce had two Bi jong positions, one was the open Bi Jong and the other the closed Bi Jong. The open was used just out of range of the opponent and was a non aggressive (almost inviting) stance. The other was used when you are in your opponents range with the hands forward and a slight bend forward in the waist.

[watchdog]

I understand that in the Bai Jong position the front arm is held in front of the body with the elbow about a fists width from the hip. The rear hand is held somewhere around the chest area below the chin in order to protect the centre line.


Actually, some people will hold the rear hand more towards the chin or a little off to the side of the chin. The basic idea is that the rear hand or arm should be able to protect against attacks to any part of the upper torso area.


However, I have often noticed that when people start throwing punches their hands revert to more of a boxing position, with the non punching hand up covering the side of the head. Is this correct or should the hands always start from the Bai Jong position even when throwing combination punches such as a jab, cross, hook? If the hands should be held up around the head when punching then why isn't this also the hand position for the Bai Jong?

Thanks for any advice.

When you start out of range of your opponent, your hands would be in the JKD bai jong position. However, when you move into range to punch, your hands will go up for a couple or reasons. One is that you are now also in your opponent's counterpunching range and you need to have your hands up to protect your head. Another is that raising your hands will facilitate the throwing of punching combinations to the head. For instance, if you were to throw a lead hook punch to the head, you would want to bring your lead hand up high and closer to your own head in preparation for that hook punch. Try doing it with the front hand still down and out and you will see that you waste time having to bring the front up first anyway.

[jkduk]

I understand what you say about the hand near the head being a better position to start a hook watchdog.

However, in general in JKD when you throw punches should the non punching hand be open near the front of the chin or as a fist at the side of the head. It seems that the open hand position would give more options for blocking/parrying and throwing straight line punches. Would someone really want to block a hook to their head using their fist while not wearing a nice padded boxing glove?

I'm asking about this because I used to hold my non-punching hand near my chin as described but I was advised not to do so. I am at the early stages of learning JKD and so want to learn the correct technique so I don't develop bad habits which are hard to break later on. Thanks.

[zippy]

I would not put my hand at the side of my face as if you get hit there it will still damage your jaw and your hand.
It is better to have it in front of you with your hand open, which is the conclusion you have come to anyways reading your post.
Where do you train?

[brentlance]

Would someone really want to block a hook to their head using their fist while not wearing a nice padded boxing glove?




Blocking a hook punch, in either of these ways, is a bad idea against almost any fighter. If you want to test the water, even with a glove on it may still stun you. Let someone throw as hard as they can and you try to block it, or take it with your hand on your face either one. I have seen many styles teach people to block a hooking punch (wide or short) and the reality is it's still going to hurt and probably will overpower the block.

So, either hand position is probably equal in my opinion. The best way is to be inside his fist, where there is little power or outside it of course.

I teach that in close your chin is well tucked in and the cover against the hook (last resort) is what is often referred to as a salute (where the inner forearm is what's protecting your ear and chin) and it is again inside his fist. From that position you can also bob and weave. And hit on the way. If you are at the fist, your inner forearm is more protecting of your head than just your fist and much more so than any other type of block you could throw up there.

Anyway, From a distance, the rear hand is in slight motion as is the lead hand. No formal positions other than up and protecting the center. When you get in close you should be hitting more in my opinion and allow your offense to be your defense. Once you learn the stance, you should explore its structure, not be bound to it.

[watchdog]

However, in general in JKD when you throw punches should the non punching hand be open near the front of the chin or as a fist at the side of the head.


Both you and Brent have brought up some good points. Different JKD people do it differently. If you look at the Bruce Lee Fighting Method books, you'll see Lee holding an open rear hand near the front of his chin when he is in his bai jong stance. If you look at photos of Ted Wong, you will see Wong holding his rear hand in a fist closer to the bottom side of his chin. However, these are static photos. As Brent pointed out, your rear hand should be in constant motion, which makes it difficult for your opponent to assess what targets are open. Also, if your rear hand is continually moving, it can move more quickly to protect against whatever your opponent is throwing at you (an object in motion moves more quickly than an object at rest) or to throw a rear punch. Your rear hand should be prepared to parry a straight punch or cover against a hook punch if needed.

As was pointed out, using your hand/forearm to cover against a hook punch is not the best option, but if your opponent is very fast or you are not so fast, covering may be the only option available. It's still better to take a punch on your arm than in the head. :)

[Arron Grammond]

The rear hand at the chin should not be CATCHING the punch just lightly checking it as you fade back just enough... to allow you to follow it back in with your own blast before they can follow up with a second punch. Thats the 1-1/2 beat application.

Our group (for blocking shots to the side of the head) prefers to duck the head behind the shoulder and fold the arm quickly around the back of the head covering the ear up also with the elbow forward like a horn and press in on them. (really its just lifting elbow and from a fighting stance so its FAST cover) If I can poke with my elbow into the pressure points on your arm at the bycept or get you in the face with it as I press inside your punch, bonus.

Also just rotating the torso with your arms in a normal JKD fighting stance with foil most centerline punches if needed. Its similar to the Wing Chung method of centerline blocking by deflecting them of the center line just a little bit with the forarms.

[jkduk]

zippy, I train in London.

Thanks everyone for all the advice. It's been very useful.

On the subject of defending against a hook to the head, if unable to avoid the punch, are there any parries which can be used as alternatives to the blocking methods that Brent and Arron described.

For example, it's claimed that the Bil Sao can be used as it is a strong block which also deflects some of the force upwards through the forward and upward thrusting action of the arm. But in reality does it work?