Knees, Elbows, Headbutts, etc.

[brentlance]

I definitely am a big fan of knees, elbows, headbutts, etc. I would say use anything that fits your structure. I don't know if I model elbows and knees from Kali or Thai, but I have trained extensively in both so I am sure that they both have influenced the way I deliver them (or don't deliver them). Just keep a simple approach, remember the mechanics, and don't do stuff that has you changing your structure and allows you to be more vulnerable than you need to be.

There was also some mention of hooks and shovel hooks. Excellent tools. I love the inside so these are also great tools. They are versatile in that you can deliver them to a variety of areas using a couple of different methods. Most people have a tendancy to square up on the inside, limiting their mobility and power while becoming an easier target. Some turn too much to the side and limit their mobility and power, because they don't want to feel vulnerable.

Don't forget you can also kick in close range as well.

Just keep a good structure inside and outside. Try to be balanced.

[Tim Tackett]

Anytime you put both of your hands around a guy's neck you are taking a chance on having his 2 thumb nails in your eyes. But it's good technique for the ring. Always remember that Bruce said to take what's offered you.
Tim

[Geoff]

hi brent you said " most people have the tendancy to square up on the inside making them a easy target" just wondering... like we was talking about different formats etc.... mike tyson is a two beat fighter that he can hit from all angles...if you see closely when he crashes in he tends to be in a ambidextious uper body.....but with a boxing stance. hiting from both sides strong....ive seen people crash in for example and once they are in the turn to a more ambidextious stance for more control....

[Arron Grammond]

If you look at Bruces notes that have been published he studied all the various ranges. Elbows and Knees are basically short ranged weapons. A very effective in close range tool. Bruce didn't just view inside and out but all the distance between. Same with angles of attach and striking. A hook adjusts with the distance and the angle needed to contact.

Close in striking with a hook,
I have a tendancy with close hooks to do the old dirty boxer trick and go for a 2-for. Contact on the hook and the elbow that follows. On focus mits you'll hear a nice "wap! wap!" for the single swing. Not the Bruce method but it works well for me.

I've played with a leading elbow on the lead arm following with the dirty hook on a closing step into a very close range too. Its a fast 3 hits on one twist of the hip, Elbow, Fist, Elbow. It does shock some people into a long pause as they are trying to figure out what just happened. Don't try to use it but as an opportunity weapon its effective. Using the lead elbow as a clearing tool for up handes was the first time I used this. It had the effect of turning them just a bit and exposing the side of the neck and head for me.

But as to in close, standing and applying knees under certain instances...

In a standing grapple and using knees I like to shift them so I have 2 hands on 1 side of the neck. Then hook my hands in on the back of the neck and shoulder (flat out but hands half overlaped) and press out wth the elbows pulling in on the hands.

It creates a joint lock like bridge with their head being forced to the side hard against their outside sholder and the sholder closest to you forced down at an angle they can't reach you very well. If they force thier arm up it adds pressure to their own neck. You can control them around with this alone as a pain compliancy tactic or start to drill them with knees to assist in compliancy.

The bridge makes there ability to use arms against you almost impossible and if you push them down for the bridge to have max effect they are bent forward so their legs are not helping. They can get out by dropping (though I have held this to flat on the floor) or shooting both arms up and running backwards, Both are poor options and put them in a disadvantage. This is not THE way to do it is only A way to do it.

Explore and experiment, keep it simple and strip it down. :D

[Tim Tackett]

Good technique.
Tim

[Bluesman]

Wow.......it seems I may have found a home. I would hope that y'all would be so kind as to post the times dates and locales of any seminars in the northern Calif area.

Looks like I'll being working with a guy directly from Vunak , and of course I'm going to absorb everything I can but I'd *really* like to be exposed to some of the other facets within the system too.

[Sheever]

If you look at Bruces notes that have been published he studied all the various ranges. Elbows and Knees are basically short ranged weapons. A very effective in close range tool. Bruce didn't just view inside and out but all the distance between. Same with angles of attach and striking. A hook adjusts with the distance and the angle needed to contact.

Close in striking with a hook,
I have a tendancy with close hooks to do the old dirty boxer trick and go for a 2-for. Contact on the hook and the elbow that follows. On focus mits you'll hear a nice "wap! wap!" for the single swing. Not the Bruce method but it works well for me.

I've played with a leading elbow on the lead arm following with the dirty hook on a closing step into a very close range too. Its a fast 3 hits on one twist of the hip, Elbow, Fist, Elbow. It does shock some people into a long pause as they are trying to figure out what just happened. Don't try to use it but as an opportunity weapon its effective. Using the lead elbow as a clearing tool for up handes was the first time I used this. It had the effect of turning them just a bit and exposing the side of the neck and head for me.

But as to in close, standing and applying knees under certain instances...

In a standing grapple and using knees I like to shift them so I have 2 hands on 1 side of the neck. Then hook my hands in on the back of the neck and shoulder (flat out but hands half overlaped) and press out wth the elbows pulling in on the hands.

It creates a joint lock like bridge with their head being forced to the side hard against their outside sholder and the sholder closest to you forced down at an angle they can't reach you very well. If they force thier arm up it adds pressure to their own neck. You can control them around with this alone as a pain compliancy tactic or start to drill them with knees to assist in compliancy.

The bridge makes there ability to use arms against you almost impossible and if you push them down for the bridge to have max effect they are bent forward so their legs are not helping. They can get out by dropping (though I have held this to flat on the floor) or shooting both arms up and running backwards, Both are poor options and put them in a disadvantage. This is not THE way to do it is only A way to do it.

Explore and experiment, keep it simple and strip it down. :D

could you pls upload a demonstartion clip about this technic?
my english is a bit poor so I can not follow the whole method
thanks

great to see technics which is used and experienced and working in the combat.

[marcus]

i never saw Bruce Lee training or talking much about elbows or knees , in some movies he was throwing elbows but they looked staged in my point of view.

in wing chun they use elbows , clear the arm elbows type i would say so i guess he might have been good for those ones.

if someone have more infos about that , im curious to know.

Mr Tackett , why would i get fingers in the eyes from a double neck tie more then others imobilisation situation , i dont understand ?

[D.Stachovak]

Anytime you put both of your hands around a guy's neck you are taking a chance on having his 2 thumb nails in your eyes. But it's good technique for the ring. Always remember that Bruce said to take what's offered you.
Tim

Anytime you come within arms reach of an opponent you risk being grabbed,poked,gouged,etc. I think if you're doing it right the benifits outweigh the risks. Put your thumbs in his eyes first!

[TCaro]

Mark Hatmaker has excellent material on the effective way to use old school boxing/puglism elbows which have a different flavor than Thai boxing and kali since they follow a more boxing oriented structure. They are not necessarily better but slightly different in application.

The elbows in wing chun can serve many purposes. Among their most overlooked benefits is the ability to throw an opponent.

[Bluesman]

Mark Hatmaker has excellent material on the effective way to use old school boxing/puglism elbows which have a different flavor than Thai boxing and kali since they follow a more boxing oriented structure. They are not necessarily better but slightly different in application.

The elbows in wing chun can serve many purposes. Among their most overlooked benefits is the ability to throw an opponent.



Don't know whether this will carry any validity for you folks , however I've found that the inside short elbows thrown in either manner can at times have the effect of creating more punching room for oneself , along with the opportunities for throws , reaps , sweeps etc.

[TCaro]

Don't know whether this will carry any validity for you folks , however I've found that the inside short elbows thrown in either manner can at times have the effect of creating more punching room for oneself , along with the opportunities for throws , reaps , sweeps etc.

Yup, a lot of old school boxing used the elbows to bump or uproot to create space between you and your opponent to deliver further attacks.

A lot of schools of kali and silat also use the elbows for this purpose along with the opposite approach: rooting the opponent's body into the ground.

Elbows have far more uses and versatility than they are commonly given credit for.

[Kuntaw]

Dirty boxing and a bit of shoving works well for me to create space.